Indie Developer Jones and the Temple of Greed

These days it seems that the once-innocent niche market of indie games has taken a turn for the worst. Indie games used to be low-key and they’d rarely be priced anything past a Happy Meal at McDonald’s—sometimes they’d be completely free. Why? Because its developer (or maybe developers if there’s another guy or two) would usually only develop the title out of fun or as some sort of pseudo political or artistic statement. Indie games were never meant for a mainstream audience with a mainstream wallet—that’s why they’re called indie games.

Of course we know who screwed that up. Well, I should say “screwed up.” Notch of Minecraft fame has found critical success. After saying he’s made more than $33 million, starting his own company (with registered trademark and everything), working with huge publishers to distribute Minecraft on power-hitting systems like the Xbox 360, AND hosting his own convention, Minecraft is anything BUT indie these days. It’s a full-fledged game still in beta. And Notch is selling it.

I guess the comparison should be drawn as quickly as possible before the Notch Defense Brigade marches in and burns down my house. You see, kids, if this was anyone but Notch who did something like that, you’d be crying bloody murder. But because you use the fallacy of, “Oh, well, Minecraft is really what you make of it because it’s creative, and blah, blah, blah,” you think everything is hunky-dory. The only problem is that it isn’t. Any game could have any sort of “creative” aspect that falsely mirrors an “infinite” playing field, but like all games, that playing field is finite. So is Minecraft’s. To hit the point home: what if Ubisoft sold From Dust in its beta stages? (And to deliver a low blow: they did.)

"Guys! Guys! Bethesda is sueing me! You're on my side, right? I'm still the little guy here, right? QUAKE III ARENA MATCH, RIGHT? I'm so mature."

Notch never gave reasons as to why he started charging money for his game. Most indie developers would probably tell you flat-out: “Hey, this is sort of my main source of income.” “This takes up quite a bit of my time, so it’d be appreciated if you could help me out.” Usually giving to indie developers used to be completely voluntary, like a PayPal donation fund for the restless. Notch’s reasons were pretty straight-forward, I think: “Hey, I can make a boatload of money off of this.” And that’s exactly what he did. But instead of using that money to forward production for Minecraft, he used it for his own personal uses. Again, I know, Notch Defense Brigade, it’s his money and he can do what he wants with it, but it doesn’t mean he hasn’t lost a piece of his soul. I’ve been around on Minecraft long enough to remember we used to get an update every Friday. Now we wait like MMO peasants hounding their overlords wondering if we’ll get any content scraps in the next month or so.

But I digress. Notch’s bit is said and done. But that’s also the entire point, because other developers have looked at Notch’s success and have said, “You know, if he did it, why can’t I?” Which is exactly what’s happening with numerous indie developers; they believe that this underhanded and disgusting business tactic of selling something unfinished is actually a sound plan. Check out who’s following suit: SpyParty, A Valley Without Wind, Celelstial Mechanica, Miner Wars 2081, Running With Rifles, and Project Zomboid, just to name a few. These are “indie” games that are not out yet but are selling their betas and applying Notchian methods to their update schedules.

Sorry folks, but the moment you make a grab for greed and focus as much as you can on making money on your indie endeavor, your game is no longer indie. You’ve become more akin to a market swindler because you’re using self-distribution—at least the indie developers that don’t beat around the bush use Steam as a distribution platform. I probably understand the concern of not doing that, however—it’s not exactly kosher to sell a game before it’s even finished on Steam.

Mark my words, people. This trend is unlikely to change. If anything we’ll probably see it get even worse; they’ll start their DLC campaigns soon enough, purposely holding back content to sell it at a later date. Folks like these might not know it, but they’re operating on the same business practices as the big boys. I just don’t understand why they don’t take off their silly masks and join the big boys table altogether. At least then it’s not such an insulting charade.

Any developer that lets you sets their own price for their game knows what the definition of "indie" is all about.

MacBook, Starbucks latte, messy hair, stubble beards, jeans and t-shirt--this is what actual indie devs look like.

 

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About Agamemnon
Started blogging back in 2007 amidst that whole Hellgate: London fiasco on a blog known as flagshipped.com. Eventually moved on to do my own thing in December 2008 at gameriot.com and started Caveat Emptor there. Wrote there for six months, gained some notoriety, and then left. Now I'm back.

51 Responses to Indie Developer Jones and the Temple of Greed

  1. lemmy says:

    Hi I’m one of the developers on Project Zomboid (Lemmy) and this article is completely missing a key point:

    “Sorry folks, but the moment you make a grab for greed and focus as much as you can on making money on your indie endeavor, your game is no longer indie. ”

    We would not EVER have been able to fund Project Zomboid to be the game it will become, if it had to be developed from start to finish without releasing it first. Seeing how Minecraft did it *made it possible for the game to be made* as, you know, making games of that size takes a long long time and isn’t something that can be done at the same time as a job in the games industry… because, well, the hours are ridiculous.

    How dare you, frankly, assume that we did that release schedule out of greed? Considering we were actually forced to release info about the game way ahead of time because WE COULDN’T AFFORD TO PAY THE RENT after, funnily enough, working on a free to download indie game called ‘Privates’. Is that your definition of ‘greed’ now?

    Nice opinion piece, shame your opinion is mal-informed.

  2. Wow says:

    Wow… you sir, are a total fucking idiot. I’d really like to say more, but you’ve stumped me. Good work.

  3. Ash says:

    Indie = Independent.

    An indie game doesn’t mean the developers aren’t allowed to make money, it means they’re doing it without the backing of investors etc.

    Do some fucking research.

  4. Shane says:

    I love you lemmy :). Most indie game developers are made up of a very small team and a small band of friends/people making a game to use as a main source of income for me still counts as an indie game.

  5. Scott says:

    Doesn’t indie mean independent? If you sell your game it can still be independently developed, and hence indie. I think you might or missed the meaning off the word. Besides notch stated several times he left his previous job to make indie games, that implies hes doing it to make money as it is his job. Most is just a rant at how you think greed is soulless and you deserve free indie games. Indie Films and Indie Music both make huge amounts of money, or are they not indie either?

    P.S I don’t own minecraft, although I do own the awesome zomboid. So i’m not really a notch fan boy.

  6. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indie_game

    the word indie is derived from independant which simply just means that the guys making it is not bound by any publisher or other sort of “overpower” that dictates how they should make the game.

    it does not however dictate their financial strategy so i’d say your arguments are invalid.

  7. The author of the blog entry is a moron, what’s the matter a little upset that someone has succeeded and made some money out of something they love to do? They are still indie as the others have said, do your research.

  8. I agree with what Lemmy said about the article being mal-informed.

    Also, I thought “Indie” stood for independent as in an independent developer lacking the financial backing of a large corporation? Which let’s be honest is why we are getting so many creative titles on the indie scene at the moment. EA and other large publishers would not risk money on new and often totally original idea’s that might end up being unsuccessful.

  9. i see handing over my money for an unfinished indie title like PZ or MINECRAFT as an *investment* towards making games like that.

    knowing that these games ARE going to become popular and devs ARE going to reap some of that later – why not hand over money for a beta version – with the promise of free future updates and the full game once its released for a standard price.

    Its not like people like the guys n gals at PZ and Notch are suddenly going to take their revenue and disappear, why would they they are on to a winner with these games.

    You are writing as if they are baiting people in with incomplete games and then going to run off with all the “donations” and never come up with the final goods.

    You have a choice. you don’t HAVE to pay for them, you don’t even have to play them if you dont want to.

    Dont forget there are FREE versions of BOTH of the above games for you to TRY before you BUY.

    I choose to, because I believe in supporting games that don’t have the backing of publishing giants like EA or ACTIVISION behind them and frankly I’m sick of all this same old same old bullshit the main players like EA and ATVI keep throwing at us every 6 months….. its fucking boring.

    Minecraft and PZ have been a welcome addition to my gaming repertoire.

    and really…….. who is THAT bothered about a £5 donation(PZ) and roughly a tenner for minecraft especially for the amount of fun i’ve had playing them……. if anyone thats being hard done by here its the devs for not having enough money coming in for the product they are putting out as it is !!!!

    That article sounded like it came from an In-dev that’s not done as well as the afore mentioned titles. (you’re probably not but thats how it sounded to me)

    The green monster is a harsh mistress.

  10. “that’s why they’re called indie games.”

    Silly me, I was under the impression that they were called ‘indie’ because they’re independently developed, i.e. not by established mainstream companies. I guess that’s what I get for associating the literal interpretation with the meaning, eh?

    “and they’d rarely be priced anything past a Happy Meal at McDonald’s—sometimes they’d be completely free […] Of course we know who screwed that up.”

    Ah, so your complaint comes from having to spend money on good quality titles where previously you got your kicks for free. Yes, yes – it’s absurdly unjust that someone who pours time, sweat and tears into something – regardless of whether or not they love what they do – and to seek monetary recompense from that in order to make a living. How dare they take their hobby and try to turn it into a means of survival? How bloody downright cheeky of them to try to shuffle off the societal coil of the depressing and yet often completely necessary 9-5 in order to pursue a financially viable career in something that brings them happiness! It’s sacrilege, I tells ya.

    “”Guys! Guys! Bethesda is sueing me! You’re on my side, right? I’m still the little guy here, right? QUAKE III ARENA MATCH, RIGHT? I’m so mature.”

    Guys! Guys! I’m writing a blatantly trollish article on why the huge increase in popularity and viability of indie gaming over the last decade is putting my nose right out of joint! You’re on my side, right? I’m still the little guy here, right? INFLAMMATORY BLOG POST FOR HITS! I’m so mature.

    https://agdom.wordpress.com/2010/11/03/meinkraft/#more-249

    Yes, heaven forbid you pay money for a game you admittedly enjoy so much you find yourself addicted to. Notch is really really mean for expecting you to pay a quarter of what AAA titles with limited re-playability charge for his continuously expanding, infinitely playable game.

  11. Not important says:

    While I do agree that Notch snatched up money and got lazy with his game. (Regular updates turning into 2 month updates, for the same patch size) you went stupid in this. You mention notch being different and making it clear that “he can make a butt load of money off of this” yet you list game devs like PZ who were struggling for money and had no choice.

  12. Rusty Broomhandle says:

    “as, you know, making games of that size takes a long long time”

    Lemmy, I think you assume he knows more than he does.

    There are a number of things wrong with this article. It seems the author thinks that “indie” is supposed to mean dirt poor. To me it just means “not owned/long term contracted by the publisher”. It means they get to do their own thing, and not be dictated to by a corporate body. Valve is a good example of this. They are independent, but certainly far from dirt-poor.

    I like to think of people who invest in games like Minecraft / Project Zomboid etc. as investors. A small investment in something you see potential in, with a chance to actually see that something carried to full term. However, your $14 investment does not entitle you to insult the developers or throw a hissy fit about slow progress when you have no idea what goes on in the developers’ lives or at their studios.

    I wish more indie developers would go the pre-purchase route. It would definitely help talended people like Konjak to finish projects.

    Why is it wrong for indie devs to try and make a living off their work? It’s the only market we can rely of for more imaginative types of games. In AAA-land we’re getting turn-based strategy games “reimagined” as gurram first person shooters for chrissake.

  13. When people in decades to come look back on the phenomena of people buying a game for a few bucks, then loudly demanding that the developer put their life on hold, including marriage, to keep adding new features, I hope they use my suggestion of “Notch-Inspired Entitlement Syndrome” (NIES).

    P.

  14. cyclerunner says:

    “Hey guys, we’re making what we think will be an awesome game. If you want to support us and help us develop it you can buy it before it’s finished. In return you get to play the game as it’s being made and own the finished product too once it’s released. Give us your feedback and become part of a vibrant community of fans and developers” – What on earth is wrong with that?

  15. As many people have stated already, you seem to be misinformed about the meaning of the term ‘indie’. I think you need to rethink your argument after fully researching the terms you are describing.

    In your world, it seems, people should work tirelessly to produce something off their own back and give it out for free, am I correct? Sure, in a perfect would there would be no currency, but maybe we should say that to farmers who work long days to create food for our tables, and tell them they won’t get any money for their sweat. It’s a far fetched suggestion, but that’s pretty much what you’re getting at.

    The people you have described have all (as far as I’m aware) given up their jobs to pursue a career doing something they love. I’m sure, if you could (and maybe you have) you would do the same with journalism/writing in some form or another, as it seems to be a passion of yours. If someone then turned to you and said ‘how would you like to make a few quid out of your words’ when you don’t have a tin of beans to go around your household, I’m pretty sure you would say yes too?

    Games such as these are still in development because they are funded primarily on the energy of developers, and not by big companies, hence the term ‘indie’ (if you’ve managed to look that up yet). If they had to produce a full game before launch, I’m pretty sure this particular genre would die off as quick as your brain cells seem to. Buying a game such as this, as people have mentioned above, could be seen as an investment into something they know they will continue to enjoy.

    …and anyway, what’s a fiver? Seriously, it’s not like they’re asking you to pay £60 for a fresh new release that will bring out expensive DLC a week later.

  16. Sp4rkR4t says:

    You have absolutely no idea what so ever about what is an indie game, indie = Independent which means no publisher, etc and to say the evolution of indie games from fun free little curiosities to a profitable market has sweet FA to do with notch, this has been coming for a long time and it’s something desperately needed as the big software house seem to have completely given up on originality.

  17. heck yeah.. why pay for a game that’s given many millions of players hours of enjoyment. I mean other than keeping us amused for many hours and giving us a fun and creative game which developed a rich community what has Notch ever done for us !

    Can you image the cheek of some people? Imagine actually wanting to be paid for what you do. Really the nerve of it ! why should I dish out my few quid to an INDEPENDENT developer when I can instead pay out 3 to 5 times as much for a game by one of the big players? Oh wait.. there’s a flaw in my argument here.. as a game developer myself (and a professional non game developer.. call that my Clark Can’t to my SupergamedeveloperMan persona) I am not allowed to charge for my work am I… gee shucks. :rollseyes:

    Oh well.. guess I’ll just go back and play games from the heady days when they didn’t charge.. Nethack anyone??

    *This post’s sarcasm quotient was checked by BazingaSoft sarcasm checker and was found to be 105% free of any sarcastic comments.. no.. really!*

  18. David Larkin says:

    Thank you for the list of indie games making use of the pre-purchase model. I was an early investor in Project Zomboid, (certainly 10 quid well spent) but I will be sure to have a look at those other games you mentioned.

    You know, ignoring every single word other than the aforementioned list, this article ended up being pretty useful.

  19. v says:

    God forbid independent games be popular and successful! Others have already driven this point home, so i won’t go on about the flaws of this article.

    But i would like to ask, What’s with everyone always bitching about frequency of updates?

    Of course games like minecraft will have a lot of updates early on, as they are fresh. There is a lot of room for improvement. There’s only so much you can add to a game before it stops being what it should. What do you expect in minecraft? New “quests” or “missions” every week? And don’t forget that ISNT mojangs only game OR concern.

  20. John Walker says:

    This is rather amusingly like someone believing that the fire brigade’s job is to spread fires, and then writing an angry polemic because they keep putting them out.

    An indie who sells their game for $9.95 and makes almost nothing is acceptable, right? But if people like the game and they sell loads, they’re not “indie” any more and are “greedy”? Am I following this correctly?

    You don’t mention 2D BOY. World Of Goo, created in the fashion your above picture demands (as was Minecraft, of course), sold a single level as a pre-order bonus for $10, then the finished game for $20, and the two creators became millionaires through the sales of that single game. They have since set up a special investment fund for supporting other indie developers. Should they too be pilloried and called names in public?

    Unfortunately, I think your largest mistake is not the fundamentally embarrassing mistake of not checking what “indie” means before starting, but rather your revealing that you believe Notch et al are at fault for not releasing updates every Friday. Self-entitlement does not a strong argument make.

  21. Robin says:

    “turn for the worst.” — “turn for the worse.”
    “priced anything past” — “priced any higher than”
    “its developer” — “their developers”
    “out of fun” — “for fun”
    “mainstream wallet” — ???

    I realise you’re probably about eight years old, but having to hack through prose like this makes it hard for the reader to sympathise with your argument.

  22. point missed completely.

    Indie means Independent and not the attributes to want to give it.

    Somebody has to pay to run this office and feed the 6 people in it (plus our dependants) and it makes sense if those bills are paid by the people who enjoy our output.

  23. Dave Gilbert says:

    To quote Yahtzee of Zero Punctuation: “Always support the independents, at least until they start making money, the soulless sellout fucks.”

    Anyway, the whole argument is dumb. Indie games used to cost the price of a happy meal? False false false! In 2005, almost every downloadable indie game was sold for twenty bucks BY DEFAULT. It was only recently that prices started dropping like stones. And as for the pay-for-a-beta thing, there were plenty of successful indie developers who used this business model before Minecraft (Mount and Blade, among others). If the system works, what’s wrong with it?

    “at least the indie developers that don’t beat around the bush use Steam as a distribution platform. I probably understand the concern of not doing that,”

    You realize that Steam doesn’t automatically take everything, right? It’s not a matter of not wanting to do it. Check out an indiegame development forum sometime and you’ll hear lots of stories of very successful indie games that – for some reason – got rejected by Steam but gets extreme high praise everywhere else.

    This article is such obvious flamebait I am ashamed to have commented.

  24. danthat says:

    Well, I agree with you.

  25. lemmy says:

    I also love this quote: “at least the indie developers that don’t beat around the bush use Steam as a distribution platform” which implies that being on Steam is just something a developer decides and lo-and-behold it happens, and anyone who’s not on Steam chose not to be.

    I’m pretty much willing to bet, ourselves included, 99.999% of indie developers would give their back teeth to appear on that Steam Store page.

    I know Notch has famously not gone on Steam with Minecraft, but then he didn’t really need to. Fact of the matter is the majority of indie developers are struggling artists, and while it might give you a wistful melancholic buzz to play games made by struggling artists, it’s not a pleasant place to be and it’s awful of you to suggest that people should choose that over financial security just to give their games some supreme ‘indie’ vibe.

    There’s still plenty of free stuff about, or donationware, but some of us just can’t take that risk, or have financial commitments that need to be taken care of.

    And most importantly, not to blow our own trumpet here, but we’re making a game here that would never be made as a AAA title. It’d just be too much work and too much risk for a publisher to develop (without proof of concept) which is why the commercial industry is so chock full of FPS games. Our game is also of massive scope, one of which we’ve only completed about 5% of despite months of development. As I said in my first (admittedly rather reactionary and angry) comment, to develop this game fully to release would take years of massive work, and we simply couldn’t justify making it without this development style.

    So, whatever you think of it, this development style make extremely ambitious indie titles a possiblity. For the first time in history, an indie developer can take on a game concept that is massively ambitious and can eclipse commercial titles in features and score (if not in graphic technology) and this is a wonderful thing, and while I don’t know for sure Notch was literally the first to use this particular distribution model, he was certainly the one that showed other developers how it was possible.

    And anyone who is still playing Minecraft, who bought it in the early days, who demands ANY more updates as some entitlement is being highly unreasonable considering the sheer amount of time they must have played it, and the price they must have bought it as an early adopter.

    And THIS is the big downside to this development model. It’s the fact that you feel, or are made to feel, beholden to the people who have purchased your game. You have a responsibility to improve the game, regularly, and still get masses of flak, name calling and judgments of your character thrown at you. We’ve had this happen plenty already, and it’s upsetting and infuriating. On the plus side though, we’re able to work on our dream game we’d had in our heads for years, that we genuinely thought was a pipe dream and we’d never be able to justify working on it as it would never get finished.

    This is the most liberating and empowering thing ever to happen to the indie games industry, and the more the better. A few exceptions aside (Dwarf Fortress, for e.g., which had been around for about a decade previous) indie games were always necessarily small in scope, a platformer, a puzzle game, a point-and-click (not saying there weren’t a lot of genius, brilliant and inventive games like this, just that anything bigger and more ambitious games were generally off the table from the outset). This is due to team sizes, lack of funding and the dangers of procrastination meaning indie games had to lack the ambition that the developers may otherwise have. We’re finally on the verge of a revolution where indie games can truly lead the industry and you spit venom at the birth of all that.

    We also met Notch, and he was lovely. Way too lovely to have the crap said about him that gets said on a daily basis. It’s really sad and he deserves his millions in his bank account for that alone.

  26. On the one hand: this article. On the other hand: shut the fuck up, whoever wrote this article.

  27. anonymous says:

    to the writer of this article.
    STFU, plz !

  28. Razorboi says:

    I for one finally found enjoyment in indie games with Minecraft. I also like the idea of being in the beginning of a game being developed, and I like to feel like a small investor in these games. I wouldn’t call myself a Notch worshipper but you have to give credit where credit is due, Notch and the rest of the Mojang crew have created and are still creating quality games, that I feel I am lucky to get for cheap and with the bragging rights of being able to say I was their in the beginning.

    Since Minecraft I have gone on to find and support other games such as project Zomboid and Drug Camp to name a few.

    It is everyone’s dream to be able to make money doing what you love, and for indie developers the thing they like to do is make games, and if they can make a living off of that then more power to them.

    I will continue to support hard working indie game developers.

  29. I’m just off to buy Project Zomboid. Thanks for the heads up!

    BTW, troll guy who trolls: before you troll next time, get some ads on your site to make some revenue.

  30. assmuffins says:

    Troll, nothing to see here.

  31. The Bag (@thebag1981) says:

    I just want to applaud everything Lemmy has said, he’s right on the money.

    Personally I left AAA development because of the freedom indie development offered, where the only limitation is your ability not a publisher’s caution. Indie games are making games with subject, creativity and scope that isn’t possible in the AAA world. Indie games now come in all shapes and sizes and that’s something we should be celebrating.

  32. Fleeboy says:

    What an amazingly mis-informed overly self-important pompous rant. It’s good for you the Internet exists because without it you wouldn’t have a platform to spout your ridiculously stupid thoughts.

    Do some research, gather some facts and then come back with a structured sensible argument above “mac = indie or indie = evil”. Consider this your homework or continue to be schooled by the educated.

  33. The Bag (@thebag1981) says:

    On the whole Notch/developers getting lazy, more time between updates thing. At the start of a project new stuff gets added thick & fast, as time goes on everything you do has to work with what’s already there, what would have been trivial near the start takes longer as it has to work with existing systems. The simple truth is as time goes on it takes longer to make substantial updates because of what’s there already.

  34. janka says:

    “MacBook, Starbucks latte, messy hair, stubble beards, jeans and t-shirt–this is what actual indie devs look like.”

    This must be a Troll Post 😀 It can’t be anything other. I mean. I reduce the Opinion presented in this Blogpost now till it says something along “Indie Developers aren’t allowed to have Money nor take Money for anything they do – they solely exist to fulfill my need for fresh individual games and that for free.”

    So how could they afford a MacBook which costs around 2k€ and Coffee from Starbucks around 5 to 8€ ? They have to develop on Ataris they found in Trashcans and Drink Water they collected in pot-holes after it has rained ;D

    Maybe this Page is somehow payed by Advertisement and he gets cash for visiting users so he writes a troll post to generate money?
    It has to be something like that 😀

  35. after reading some of the other articles i can conclude that OP is a whiny little crybaby bitch.
    attention whore writing what they think is controversial or against the reviewed subject PURELY for the reaction it gets.

    dont waste anymore time.

  36. cyclerunner says:

    Janka said: “So how could they afford a MacBook which costs around 2k€ and Coffee from Starbucks around 5 to 8€ ? They have to develop on Ataris they found in Trashcans and Drink Water they collected in pot-holes after it has rained ;D”

    Hiliarious! I’m sure the blog author would approve of “indie colonies” run on the lines of leper colonies where such scenarios would exist. They would represent for him the spirit of pure indie development without the evil taint of rampant commercialism that he sees in hard working people trying to make a living by doing what they love.

  37. Monkeh says:

    What crawled up your ass?

  38. Bruce C. says:

    I was going to write a long post justifying Notch’s approach to funding and marketing Minecraft, starting with “How is Notch’s approach different from starting up a pledge page on Kickstarter?:” But then I thought WTF. The entire point of your post is “Notch isn’t Indie anymore!”, but you express it the same way Republicans say the word “Liberal” as if it were something evil. I don’t give a flying fart if you think Notch is an indie developer. In fact I don’t even care if Notch IS an indie developer. Minecraft is an interesting game at a reasonable price and that’s that. End of story. All the rest is just marketing and stirring up controversy for the sake of page views.

    Whatever. Notch made good and was able to assemble a team of game developers doing what they love. If that generates more games with the same value proposition to game fans like me, more power to them.

  39. I hope that you understand that our very livelihood as independent developers depends on our public image. Notch is a large portion of our public image, and to us he is a superhuman being.

    Not sure if you understand this, but he managed to do everything that we want to do– and was wildly successful. At this point, it doesn’t much matter what he does, he’s been idolized. He can be immature or silly or whatever he wants, because to indies he’s still our only superhero.

    Given that this article will not affect that in a negative way — it will probably bring us more tightly together — I’m mostly ok with it.

    Hopefully, though, you learn something from this. I’m a bit sad that you are such a poor writer even though it’s obviously your passion. I hope after this bit of luck (similar to notch) that you continue to grow your skills, because you obviously have a lot of interest. You definitely have the potential to be a positive influence for the games industry.

  40. Well done! Your post achieved what you had hoped, more than 0 comments this time.

    Too bad the attention is on your douchbaggery, not out of respect.

  41. ryansyrett says:

    Anyone who gets on their high horse thinks the world owes them anything more than a moderately decent indie game for the princely sum of a fiver has some serious valuation issues when it comes to video games.

    The mind boggles at such greed.

  42. Ringod123 says:

    wow, first piece of yours i have ever read, and the last, if you are a fan of putting all indie devs in one box then im happy putting you in the same box as people who basically dont have a clue what they are writintg about. first, do some research on your subject next time matey pie instead of trying to write an article having a go at notch for his lazyness of late and then as an afterthought thinking, “shit i dont want to call out 1 person in particular so i better try and say that the whole indie scene is full of con men and charlatans” when in reality, notch is neither of these and a hell of a lot of other indie devs are not either! at the end of the day the only stupid people are the ones who buy something without knowing what it is or the ones who dont do theyre research on a possible “risky” purchase. now put your dummy back in and stop supporting indie games if thats how you truly feel, otherwise your nothing but a fucking troll mate!

  43. Agamemnon says:

    Many thanks for Project Zomboid bringing out the worst in people and proving my point on defense brigades. You’ll excuse me if I don’t answer any of your troll bait.

    Also, many more thanks for people who believe there’s only one definition for “indie games.” Because economics isn’t a social science, apparently.

    To Lemmy, or what ever your name is: It sounds tough, and I’m sure it was, but did you ever think that if you found yourself in financial troubles you probably should’ve focused on a career option as opposed to your hobby? And if this is no longer your hobby, have you considered the standard business practices everyone else usually employs when trying to go for the self-employed gig, i.e. thinking it through, ensuring you have money to support your investment, etc.? Because all you’ve told me so far is, “We were in trouble, we didn’t think it through, and we did the next best thing: hoped we could get money to support our production.”

    Big industry in video games has failed on fronts like that and has left hundreds out of work because of one man’s dreams and mistakes. Take a look at Bill Roper for a prime example of that. Sure, his intentions were honorable, but the guy walked into his own development team and thought money would fall from the sky. When it didn’t he tried to turn his only-released game into something it wasn’t and it completely backfired on him. In turn hundreds of people found themselves out of work with many of them not receiving severance.

    Like Bill Roper, your intentions may be honest, but your goals have other motives, as is quite clear by charging people for an unfinished product. The indie industry is largely getting away with it because a lot of honest folk are working on their own salaries. The only problem is the guys who end up making fortunes off these business tactics then go on to continuously defend any other under-handed business practices they may employ (i.e. charging for future updates, implementing some fluff RMT store, etc.).

    Indie developers are supposed to be clearly defined against big developers. The moment you join the ranks of that corporate practice it’s time to stop wearing sandals and t-shirts and accept you’re making enough money to be comfortably well-off. It’s something Notch hasn’t apparently figured out yet. Or he has and he’s enjoying the leeway he’s getting by still calling himself an indie developer.

    EDIT: http://www.theindiestone.com/lemmy/index.php/2011/03/08/the-perils-of-xna-and-the-death-of-an-indie/

    Actually, yeah. Looks like I was right on the money (pun intended).

  44. lemmy says:

    “did you ever think that if you found yourself in financial troubles you probably should’ve focused on a career option as opposed to your hobby?”

    Brilliant. So I should pursue a career I don’t enjoy and have no skills in, over one I do enjoy that I have 15 years of experience in?

    …and considering we’re now living comfortably, are financially secure, and have a lot of people who enjoy your game, and are working on the game we always wanted to, I honestly fail to see why we should have done any different just on account of people like you who take umbrage at it.

    • Agamemnon says:

      To Lemmy (Again ignoring your troll bait): Yeah, welcome to the real world of what everyone else has to do if they want to survive and support their family. Rarely is anyone actually doing what they really want to–rather they are working toward that goal. In fact, it’s usually the dream chasers that forgo common sense and logic when it comes to business practice that end up hurting more folks than they help. In your case you’ve lucked out so far with your success.

      There were a number of different ways to achieve the goals you wanted to. Instead you opted for “get rich quick” with underhanded business tactics. It’s all said and done now so it hardly matters anymore, but it doesn’t make my point any less true.

  45. “Actually, yeah. Looks like I was right on the money (pun intended).”

    Every single comment you’ve received on this worthless piece of drivel is in complete and utter disagreement with you, and you still think you’re right?

    You’re a tosser. You’re either a blatant troll or a moronic imbecile (or, more likely, both). You’ll notice I’m dropping all sense of reason in this comment and resorting to puerile name-calling because frankly I think that’s the only level of communication you’re capable of dealing in. If this post is your actual genuine opinion, then you’re a disillusioned twat. If you’re doing it to troll, you’re a self-aborbed twat.

    40+ comments on a previously quiet review blog is only a success if those comments serve to cement your credibility as a journalist. The comments on this post only certify your credibility as a hack failure.

  46. Rusty Broomhandle says:

    “defense brigades”?

    So if a group of people show up to protest against a completely and obviously incorrect view, you dismiss them instantly under the banner of “defense brigade”? Good thing you don’t represent most of the human population, or South Africa would still be living under apartheid. (no, not trying to Godwin the thread)

    Not sure who took a shit in your corn flakes, but your attitude is that of someone who has obviously failed at life and can simply not stand to see others try to make a living off something they enjoy or even be successful at it.

    Also, have you asked 2D Boy how they feel about you cramming their picture into your blog post as poster boys for your misguided opinion?

  47. John JJ Schmidt says:

    Video game hipsters need blogs to feel fulfilled.

    “Also, many more thanks for people who believe there’s only one definition for ‘indie games.'”
    […]
    “Indie developers are supposed to be clearly defined against big developers.”

    Heh.

  48. Agatrollnon says:

    Lol, this was only written hoping to bring a metric ton of Minecraft fans to a deserted blog.

  49. Doktor Alexsandir says:

    Feed me, with all of your f*cks.

    Do it.

  50. Lexus Langg says:

    ……… That’s all I have to say….

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